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2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: I feel nothing alot too, and of course most adults (and I will probably feel this way later to) say its a typical teenager thing, which is true, but they all say its all in your head or whatever, but its just when you grow up you start believing what everyone has always said, the good and the bad. How love will conquer everything, when you die you will be with the ones you love, everything that isn't able to be proven is all in you head, here take pills you'll be okay, talk to a phycitrist they will bring you back to what WE can prove, what WE can see. Sight is so overrated, for christs sake use your HEAD not your EYES
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Oh! Eldheler, did you get lots of snow too?? I live in MN and we have like 5 feet of snow on the corners of the streets...it's insane...I hate shoveling now!
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: And use your heart...
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: oh *gosh* (happy?), dont talk to me about snow, we got teh most up here, its 34-38 inches here, the drifts are over my head (over 5 feet) and gah...its crazy
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: It IS crazy--and not to be rude--but could say gosh, just in THIS wiki. No fighting just a ...thing I have...forgive me....o_O
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: But YES! Snow........I don't want ANY more of it. If we do get any more, I fear for the death of my back!
2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: yeah...lots of show around here so i hear...i wouldn't know...i haven't been outside in 5 days
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: what's your "heart" teri? people always talk about a "soul" or a "heart" when they really dont know what they are talking about, its funny that alot of people think they have a "soul" and yet don't believe in anything else that cant be proven, tell me, where is the soul then? can you see your soul? then that too is "philosophy" only to be regarded by those idiots who just want to make the world better then it is. Gah, I hate people who only believe in what they see, dont believe that electrons torn apart are still connected and communicate faster then the speed of light, it IS proven, though you can't exacly "see" it.
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: 5 days...! I wish I didn't have to look and the freeking snow for 5 days! I like to go out in it though....jump around in the snow, frolic about. Oh yes, good times.
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: What the? Where did THAT come from? It's like 10:30 at night! All I wanted to do was rant about the snow! Why must you always ask me the most brain pushing questions....m
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: no I mean in general, not you, if you believe in everything the church tells you then I know clear enough what YOU believe. I mean to those idiots who believe in nothing but believe they are more then a bunch of cells. People like that really annoy me...thats alot of scientist who brush of half of physics as a crackpot idea...
2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: i believe in proof more than just "seeing" something...pe
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Ohhh....sorry for over reacting then. Yes. And actually, thanks to RaineDrop I have been looking and searching about my Catholic faith and finding out why we do that, and believe in this. It's really helped. So, with the Magestarium as my guide, yeah, I beliefe in every thing the Church teaches. I am so not good with science...so yeah...I KNOW people are more then just a bunch of cells! *grin*....
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: hmmm...I'm not sure if I could do that...I need people far to much. eh, I don't believe in alot that I see, I mean common, my brother CANNOT leviate, he just knows how to make it LOOK like he can, he has freaked out alot of people though, hes really good at that. And people believe in love...dude I don't see love, *sigh* hypocrites, it's all cause they have always been told that, its sad. You gusy know the song 'Homesick Subterranean Alien', well if you know Radiohead you do...that is deffiantly exacly how I feel 24/7
2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: i think we are cells...*shrug
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: I don't follow..sorry.
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: I say it doesnt matter if you care or not, I dont believe we haev a choice in where we go after we die, but I know we go somewhere, not hell, not heaven, not purgatory, and no not back here, well unless your soul decides to double back for whatever reaason.
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: stay inside my house for 5 days, unless I was really sick or something...
2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: i believe death is just death...nothin
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: Ah, well, I'm not even going to comment on that because I do not feel like fighting right now. Every time I talk about the Catholic beliefs in the Catholic wiki I get like...yeah, it's just not good...Sorry, brain frozen.
2005-01-24 [RabidSphinx]: i stay inside, sitting by my phone, quietly with myself...waiti
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: and teri you dont have to believe everything the church tells you, I'm not going to tell you it's all lies and whatever, come to your own conclusions, I mean Bill O'Reilly is catholic but I don't think he believes everything they tell him, cause of course hes stubborn and opiniated, doesn't make him a bad person or wrong. If you don't figure something out yourself you AREN'T going to truely believe or understand it. Like my old art teacher, if we asked him a question he would ask back, told us everything in questions and we would have to find the answer then we understood, if he just told us it would deffiantly go right over our head.
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: *sigh*...But I just said that! I said I am finding out the reasons why we do things, and where we got things from! It's a great thing to do if you do it with an open mind and heart. And so far, the Church has come up right....so I am happy knowing that so far, I am in the darn right place and I am proud to stand here!^o^ And...I don't believe every thing the Church tells me. I wish all of you would stop saying that. You don't know how much work goes into "what the church tell us". It takes years and years, because, they too do not want any thing to be wrong! They love Jesus just as much as the next person...why they want us to be lead in the wrong direction. Sorry, but I had to finally stand
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: up on that point....and like I said, so far so good. Finding out the answers to something you would give your life too is not little matter, so you all don't have to worry about that....Night All! Sleep in God's peace!^o^
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: I'm not saying you DO, I'm just warning you NOT TO, and if you DO do it for a reason. I'm not sure if I ever was a Christian, but I knew I wasn't satisfied with alot of what they were telling me, I've looked at alot of other religions as well, its just they seem so unorginal, something only a HUMAN could come up with. Alot have the whole "do good go to heaven (or equivilent)" but I don't believe in heaven, I'm not a horrible person cause I feel like it. Don't think I'm attacking you OR your religion cause for goshes (wow, remembered, give me points for that) I'm not, I'm just stating stuff to help you grow and understand more, isnt that what you WANT? If you sit around all the time with..
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: ...people who believe the same stuff as you you wont grow, because all you do is agree, and agree...and you dont really know why you agree, you can believe what you want to believe, I honestly don't care, cause it doesnt make any difference to me.
2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: raine, going back to talking about people hurting themselves, I never could bring myself to cut my arms or legs, but I used to give myself bruises on my shins and theighs. I've been there, done that. (talking to everyone now) I even struggled with thoughts of killing myself years ago. Things down right sucked then. I hated the way my life was going, mostly because I was so lonely and wanted a boyfriend...sc
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: I'm not suicidal if thats what your thinking, and school is a stupid way to judge your intelligence, my sister never finished highschool, she just took a test to get a diploma and now she goes to a local college in florida and lives on her own. Doesn't make her dumb that she didnt pass, she just didnt want to do the work, she was smart enough to see it was all really really stupid. but now I have to work hard, she made me promise I would *sigh*. I'm not sure if I want a bf, I havent liked a guy in a while...I do love someone but he's dead so that doesnt really help...it'a pathetic really...he wants/would want me to move on
2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: I wasn't directing that at you, I was talking to everyone...I never implied that you were suicidal
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: well isnt self harm against catholic beliefs? If your body is a temple of God, because it is made in the image of God harming it would be disrespectful to a temple of God and hence disrescteful to God. Not saying you can't make mistakes but for you it is a 'sin'...and I'm just making myself clear, since it seems me and raine seem to be the only non-catholics here so who else would you be talking to?
2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: you are right, the body is a temple of God, thats why it was so wrong for me to do what i did, and why I regret hurting myself. like I said, I was addressing everyone in the room, present or not.
2005-01-24 [Tesa]: I have to say that we Catholics don't sit around and agree and agree. There IS SO MUCH to discuss and to learn that Catholics must strive to keep learning and help each other out. We grow and learn to understand SO MUCH that it can be hard to agree and agree, but we must learn, (discover) and then teach! The Catholic Church has given us much to learn and to find out with our minds and hearts alike. So...yeah, but once again, don't worry, The Holy Catholic church is beyond thorough.
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: It is no where near beyond thorough, what an earth are you talking about? No religion is 'beyond thorough' every religion has holes, every religion has screw ups. To believe any religion is perfect is absolute craziness, nothings perfect nothing makes perfect sense, nothing is thorough, not here.
2005-01-24 [Lioness123]: I disagree. Jesus DIED to start the catholic church, and yes, some representative
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: He didn't die to START any church, he died to SAVE us. He didn't die for us to make buildings to worship him, he didn't die so corrupt people could take advantage of their positions (namely the popes of old, and priests in my area who abused boys), he didn't die to make a church. Oh course you have to believe its the 'right' religion, but unless you truely believe that instead of kidding yourself into think it is, you aren't going to get anywhere. To many kid themselves into thinking that and they fall and alot of times they fall hard. My sister is a Christian but she doesn't go to church, because she doesn't believe she should be told how to worship, told what to pray, she...
2005-01-24 [Bad Stone]: ...prays how she wants to, she worships how she wants to, then it actually comes from the heart. She doesn't stand there and sing or say what everyone else is saying because thats to easy to do without really meaning it. She knows what she believes and it'll never change cause she found it herself, the hard way.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: woot...[Bad Stone] took over my role...way to be...(^_^) i agree for a good mojority of what you're saying
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Meh! He died to save us, YES and to set up a church on earth to help us! And my goodness, I have said it a thousand times, THE CHURCH LOOKS INTO AND GOES OVER THINGS FOR MANY YEARS! AND, prayers from your heart is the best kind of prayer! BUT we MUST worship in God's house! Talking on the phone to your best is like praying, and you most definetly would want to go and visit that friend at there HOUSE is like going to Church. And, I don't know any thing about your church but, your right many things are easy to say with out meaning them, but that is WHY we STUDY the things of the church. We don't just walk into church like a bunch of zombie's, make the priest "kidd" us into believing every
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: thing the church teaches. Why do you all think that we are just blind leading the blind. Or the wicked, 'money craving' Church Athorities leading us, 'the blind'??? What the Church teaches is solid. Most of it comes from Jesus and his apostles!
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: *sighs* this is funny to watch...but i'll stay out...i'm on vacation...bye everyone...i'm off to try and live...if i die trying, i guess i won't be back...
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: Why do you think the curtian in the temple split when Jesus died? why do you think he lashed out at the prophosies? why do you think he told you that he was the cornerstone and that he doesn't dwell in ANY building, he dwells in those who believe, not in a church. We need not go ANYWHERE to worship, we don't have to. When the curtian split it meant that we need no one, no special preists, nothing, to come before God, all we need is him no human, no building. All that doesn't matter, its just humans trying to make it seem impressive. But it all falls short, no matter how ornate we make a church it's pathedic compared to him, it's mockery.
2005-01-25 [Mr. Werewolf]: *applauds [Tesa]*
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: RaineDrop...pl
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: *applauds [Bad Stone]...way to go with that last comment...that is so what i believe...and it's not a vacation teri, i just plan to crawl into bed and i may not leave it for a long time, so i may not be on for a while
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: we DON'T have to go to a church to worship, thats ridiculous, why don't we all bow to Jerusalem them? Turn into every religion that are all the same, follow a book, listen to the leaders, the god dwells in one place. No, don't do that to yourselves, you DON'T have to be somewhere to worship God. Worship him whereever you like, because he's everywhere, he doesn't just 'tune in' on churches. We dont need leaders either, we HAVE a leader, Jesus, he's already made it clear what to do and how to do it and it's not hard to understand. We don't need a leader to over analyize everything. Why was God so relunctant to give the jews a king? because he knew it wasn't the right way to go.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Eldheler, that's really out of line. It's not how beautiful the church is, it's because the Blessed Sacrament is there, the house of God is sacred. Jesus DID make a church, The Catholic Church. And I intend to let all persons know that going to Church WILL save them.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: You are so RIGHT! God is every where! And that's a beautiful thing, but going to a Church to worship God has been going on for longer then the Catholic Church has even been around!! The Jews did it, the Protestants do it, the Lutherans do it. EVERY ONE. Personally, I just think people are lazy to go to Church some times, they don't think that they have to go. That giving ONE HOUR TO GOD is stupid, out of the question. When he gives you a whole freaking week and LIFE and you can't go for ONE hour? Please, now THAT is Ridiculous.
2005-01-25 [the_puetzj]: we go to church to respect God showing that we can take time out of our busy lives to come visit him and be with him. anyway God and Jesus are the same but different i dont exactly understand that no one does really though
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: actually teri, it wasn't out of line, and [Bad Stone] *is* right...he didn't set up any church, just acknowledged the faithful followers, telling them to remember what he tought and honor them...the Church was a man made creation and nothing more...and god doesn't care if we "take time out of our lives" beyond personal prayer and study
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Oh yes, we do have a leader and Jesus Christ is the head honcho. BUT he left Peter to start the church and to teach men into leaders to guide us. That is why still today we are blessed to have a Pope. And a great one at that.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: How am I out of line? God doesn't fit in a building he's way to big, your making him seem limited. Blessed Sacrament? inform me, I probably know what it is but don't know the name for it...you mean Communion? I don't think God dwells in wine and bread. Jesus did NOT make a church, and most certianly did not make a catholic one, why are so narrow minded? Protestant churches believe the same basic (and only important) beliefs as you, that Christ died and rose again to save EVERYONE who believes. And going to church WILL NOT save you! where on earth did you get that idea? Plenty of people go to church and DON'T believe, doesn't mean they will be saved because THEY AREN'T they...
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: ...dont believe, hence arent saved, they can go to church every fricken day they want and it wont make one bit of difference when they die.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Of course he is WAY too big. He dwells with in us and his house. The Blessed Sacrament is Jesus Christ's true Body and Blood. And I am not narrow minded, please don't name call in this Wiki. And your quite right, for those who go to Church for selfish reasons will not get the fulfillment of the Mass, and those who do go will receive Graces from God.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: it's not namecalling teri...it's an observation...
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Melchizedek. The bread and wine offered by the priest-king Melchizedek (Genesis 14:18) prefigure the bread and wine offered by the eternal priest-king Jesus at the Last Supper. Remember that Hebrews 6:20 calls Jesus “high priest forever according the order of Melchizedek.”
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: The Paschal Lamb. The same victim that was offered up to save the lives of the first-born of Israel was also the victim consumed as food for bodily nourishment as the Israelites began their journey to the promised land (Exodus 12:1–20). This prefigures the Eucharist where the same victim, Jesus, who was offered up for our sins to save us from spiritual death is consumed in the Eucharist to provide spiritual nourishment for the journey to our promised land of heaven.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: The Manna. This is one of the clearest symbols of the Eucharist in the Old Testament and one that Jesus expressly applies to himself (John 6:32–51). The manna from heaven sustained the Israelites throughout their pilgrimage in the desert, but ceased to fall when they entered the Promised Land (Exodus 16:35). Similarly, the Eucharist nourishes us spiritually in this life of pilgrimage, but ceases (as do all the other sacraments) when we enter the promised land of heaven.
2005-01-25 [Mr. Werewolf]: Jesus said that he would build his church on Simon Peter, which means that through his disciples he created the Church. Going to Mass is important though...the main reason being we get the Eucharist which is like our soul food.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: Then why did you just say "going to church will save you" it WONT. The wine and bread is not Jesus's body and blood, it is no more holy then any water or crackers, it's just a reminder of his sacrifice and that it belongs to anyone who accepts it. My church does communion every sunday, but all it is is symbolism. Oh, so since the whole of my state was buried in 3 feet of snow and most churches were closed, everyone was stuck inside, they couldn't get to a church, should they go to hell now cause they missed sunday because we just had a huge blizzard and literally were snowed in?
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: the REMEMBERING is what is important, not the act of the eating and drinking of the bread and wine...why can't you see that? the MEANING is what's important
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: For Christ says, "My body is true food, and my blood is true drink. All who eat my body and Drink my blood shall live forever." NOW! Jewish and Catholic alike have studied that ways of the old writers. And they show NONE what so ever that Jesus was talking FIGURTIVLY.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: I agree with [Mr. Werewolf]. That is the soul real Catholics Celebrate the Mass.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: And what do you mean 'making an observation' RaineDrop?
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: of corse he was speaking figurtivly! he was saying if you accept him, and take his word to heart, you are LIKE taking his body and blood into you...eating crackers and cheap whin the church buys at walmart the week before doesn't make you any closer to god
2005-01-25 [the_puetzj]: the main difference between catholics and other religons is true belief in the eucharist
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: "Do this in remembrance of me," is what Jesus said when he did the first communion before his death. It's nothing more then a constant reminder, and he IS talking figuratively, a non beleiver can have communion and still nto be saved, and he can drink and eat Jesus's literal body and blood and once again it'll make no difference when they die.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: observation where you weren't being CALLED closeminded, [Bad Stone] was just observing that that is what's wrong with catholics and other major relijions
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: You disgust me, how dare you say that. You think the Church is so stupid, why don't you try to learn about it before you bash us. And...you always go RIGHT from the Bible, take EVERY thing the Bible says right to heart. Why not John 6? Why do you not believe in that?
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: You said it yourself Eldheler, if they don't believe in it, how can they be saved? You must open your heart. And your right, he said to his apostles to continue the Holy Mass and gave them the power to turn the *wal mart* cracker and whine into his body and blood, so that we may remain in him and remember what he did for us.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: I said you were closeminded because ypu say that the Catholic Church is the ONLY Church which is NOT true, other churches believe the same teaches of Jesus and follow him as well, sure they may not make it all fancy or have communion every sunday but they still believe Christ died for them and still have faith that it will save them. They have every right to heaven as you do, don't talk like you do acting so high and mighty lik only Catholics are saved, because most other Christians believe you are saved as well, how about you return that favor?
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: what about john 6? and we take things from the BIBLE because that is god's word...he WANTED us to use his word, not man's word like the church teaches
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: heheh...i love you [Bad Stone] (^_^)
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: How weird....why do you think only CATHOLICS will go to heaven? I never said that. And not being a Catholic means you have a one way ticket to hell. Heavens no, do not put words into my mouth. And no, we don't believe in ALL the same things. We are the True Church. And I stand by it.
2005-01-25 [the_puetzj]: i know other churches are saved it is a bad stereotype that they dont there is even a joke about it which i will post here if i can find it again
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: hahaha...the "true Chruch"? isn't that raising yourself up rather high? you are all so full of yourselves...y
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: RaineDrop your RIGHT. And that's what the Church is doing by ORDAINED MEN having the power to turn bread into Christs body. That is what the church is surrounded upon. The very strongest commandment of Jesus. To recieve the most Holy Eucharist.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: I know how I can be 'saved' I am NOT a Christian, I'm playing devils advocate for the protestant church. Look here is my point, the problem with churches (Catholic mostly since you stress these far to much) is they make a HUGE deal out of things like Communion and the Church (the BUILDING) itself. It takes away from what it really important, Jesus's sacrifice for us and how we must beleive in him. You can go to church all you want, drink and eat as many holy sacraments you want it won't do a thing for you when you die.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: How dare you speak like this in a Roman Catholic Wiki. We don't 'eat as many holy sacraments!' Gosh! It doens't matter WHERE you have Mass, as long as you have it. And JESUS SAID "As long as you eat my body and drink my blood you will have eternal life with in you."
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: you guys aren't getting this, you put yourselves about other churches, why? Because you were first? You also messed up the most, you make a big deal out of little things, clouding the mind and making a very simple thing unclear, thats why alot of protestant churches are very simple, and have simple services. It's so we can understand and we can be HUMBLE, because frankly you can put on as many fancy clothes on as you want your just kidding yourself if you think God is impressed, cause to him it's nothing.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: you can't handle the brutle honesty teri? [Bad Stone] isn't saying anything rude, just stuff you can't defend against, so you get outraged...
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: I'm not saying you AREN'T saved but if you dont believe it doesn't matter how 'holy' you try to be, because we CAN'T be holy. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. And I can speak how I want, I am being plenty polite, making perfect sense not trying to offend, just pointing out what many people see as 'mistakes', if you can't handle how most of the world feels about you then don't listen.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: *high fives Raine*
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: *huggles* you're so smart...(^_^)
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: and teri don't twist Christ's words, and YOU said this yourself, you can't take the whole bible literally. All you need to do is believe! You don't have to drink his blood and eat his bread to be saved, and it's right there in John 3:16, John 3:16 is actually all you need to know to be saved, believe that and you can be saved.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: I beg your pardon if I was 'outraged' but you get the same way when some one disses YOUR beliefs. And I can handle it RaineDrop, and I can defend it. I am 16 years old, I hardly know any thing. I am still learning much. Oh yes, we are called to be Holy as Christ was Holy. And for the final time, we are NOT kidding ourselves, we know we are The True Church. And we do not impress ANY ONE. So what if we have nice clothes. I am sure you wear make up, why? When you don't have to impress any one. Those simple things you are taking too far.
2005-01-25 [the_puetzj]: Three men arrive at the gates of heaven St. Peter asks the first man "religion?" the first man replies, "Episcopalian" St. Peter looks down at his list and says " go to room 24 but be very quiet as u pass room 8." to the second man St. Peter asks "religion?" the second man says "methodist" St. Peter looks down his list and says "go to room 14 but be very quiet as u pass room 8" to the third man St. Peter says "religion" the man repies "baptist" St. Peter looks down his list and says "go to room 21 but be very quiet as u pass room 8" the third man then says to St. Peter "i can understand there being different fooms for different religions but why must we be quiet as we pass room 8?"
2005-01-25 [the_puetzj]: St. Peter tells him "well the Catholics are in room 8 and they think they are the only ones here
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: =O that's a horrible Joke!
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: hahaha! that's great! hahaha...i can't stop smiling!!!cs
2005-01-25 [Mr. Werewolf]: Actually, Catholics believe that anyone can go to Heaven who lives a virtuous life. Some people certainly may have opposing feelings, but that is what we believe as a Church.
2005-01-25 [the_puetzj]: the catholic faith tried getting rid of the decorations and making things plain but they are bringing it back cause people like the decorations and are comforted by them not distracted
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: teri thats how people feel about you, and thats how you act, calling yourself "The True Church" the true church is in heaven, where real christians are and where they are finally completely holy by the blood of christ. There is no "true" church here, cause not one of us is holy. You single yourself off, when Jesus cleary said that his gift for for anyone who wants it.
2005-01-25 [the_puetzj]: i posted it as an indication of stereotyping about catholics nothing else
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: but it *is* so true...hahaha
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: we shouldn't feel comfortable in the presence of God. He is perfect we are distgusting, when you make everything fancy people feel comforted because they feel fancy, we shouldn't feel fancy when we come before God we should be humble. and actually I don't wear make-up.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: i wear makeup...but only to impress myself...(^_-)
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Oh well...sorry about that. I just thought most girls do, my bad!^^
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: cat isn't "most girls" and she is smart...what she has said here is VERY true, and you are being closeminded and stuck up for not halfheartedly listening to what she has to say
2005-01-25 [the_puetzj]: well it may indicate that catholics dont ast perfect or think they are perfect which they dont but im gonna go play vice city
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: ack, 'ast' I can't figure out what that is...dont ask to be perfect? haha, wel have fun playing good old videgames *grins* your like my brother...
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: isn't "vice city" a VERY none catholic game? the point of the game is to kill people and steal stuff...god is watching you you know...(i love that game!!!) anyways...i'm off for a quick shower...bbl
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: lol give the kid a break ^_^
2005-01-25 [Dint]: First off, someone has to possess the Truth. There are 28 thousand + Protestant denominations, each one professing something a little different, each one interprets the Bible a little differently and each one professes to hold the Truth. But there can only be one Truth. Jesus instituted The Church when he said to Peter “Upon this rock (meaning Peter) I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.” He also said this to Peter, “I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven
2005-01-25 [Dint]: . Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.” This shows that Jesus gave Peter the authority to teach and govern in His name. That was the beginning of the Catholic Church.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: And on account of the Eucharist and going to church every Sunday.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: The Eucharist: Jesus did not say “this is a symbol of my body;” He said “this is my body and this is my blood.” There were people around Him who left Him and stopped believing in Him because they thought it was a hard saying. Jesus did not run after them and say “Oh, I just meant it figuratively;” He let them go.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: As far as going to church on Sunday, one of the Commandments says that we must keep holy the Lord’s Day. This tells us that we must worship God because he is the Supreme Being and Creator of all things. Because Christ instituted a church and because He gave us Himself in the Holy Eucharist it only stands to reason that God wants to be worshipped in church. As Catholics we believe that the Mass which was instituted by Christ is a representing (or bringing into the present time) His sacrifice on the cross.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: This can only be done by ordained priests and it is only fitting that it be done within a church. Because the church consists of people we need a place to get together to worship God.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Very well said [Dint]! I can only thank you and thank you for every thing! You've got it down great!
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: And some two cents it was! I am so proud--I have so much to learn! *grin* And I can't wait!
2005-01-25 [Dint]: Dude, we all have a heck-of-a-lot to learn. But cripes all mighty. *shakes head* When I come and read what's been going on in here I feel accused of a crime for believing what I do.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: --sorry took me so long to reply my computer shut down, and I lost so much work GAH-- First of all Sunday is NOT the Lord's day, saturday is. Saturday is the day God rested, Sunday is the day Christ rose again. Christ said to drink the wine, and eat the bread in his rembrance, it wont save you, only accepting him as your savoir will. I've had Communion of a mountian side next to a ski lift, it was still communion, it was still in Christ's honor, still done by an ordained priest, it worked fine. Peter was not the begining of a Ca church, they didn't worship in cathdreals, they didn't wear fancy robes, they stayed humble. You said it yourself that you cannot take the whole of the bible...
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: I under stand compleatly. Being a Roman Catholic, and believing in what *we* do, makes me very happy.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: ...literally, when Jesus said he was the corner stone he wasn't LITERALLY a corner stone, when Jesus said he would tear down the temple and rebuild it in 3 days he didnt mean he would actualy tear it down, but he never made it clear he didnt mean it that way did he?
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: When Jesus was talking about the temple, he was talking about himself. How he would die and rise in 3 days. That much I know is sure.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: Yes but the leaders of the jews believed he meant the temple and then accused him of it, they took it literally, the easiest way of understanding what he said instead of finding out what he really meant.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Think of the words of Saint Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians: "The cup of blessing that we Bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the Body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 10:16) St. Paul says that in the Eucharist we participate in Christ’s own body and blood, not in a mere symbol or memory of Christ. Symbolic bread and wine cannot unite to Christ’s real body and blood. The only way to *participate* is in Jesus’ body and blood through the Eucharist if is his body and blood were really present in the Eucharist. Which it is.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: The Sabbath was the Jewish worship day. We as Christians worship God on Sunday in commemoration of the Resurrection of Christ who is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. Because God created all things, including us, there is nothing that we can give back to God that is not already His. As I explained before the Mass, instituted by Christ, brings into the present time the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Time has no meaning for God because in eternity there is no time.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: . (By that I mean that the Sacrifice of Christ can be always in the present.) Therefore in the Mass Jesus’ Sacrifice is being offered to the Father and we offer ourselves with Him to the Father. By offering ourselves we are giving ourselves to God and we are recognizing Jesus as our Savior.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: The early Christians had to worship in private because they were being persecuted for the first 300 years. After that they started to build churches. They always worshipped in community, not alone.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: Eucharist is not needed to enter the kindom of heaven, nor will it alone get you to the kindom of heaven. Eucharist is nothing without faith, but you can have faith without it, Catholics put far to much emphasis of the Eucharist then they should, they put more on it then the actual faith at times. Faith is all the saves, not bread or wine, they are still bread or wine no matter who prays over then. Crushed grapes and ground wheat, not a body and not blood.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: Concerning fancy things like robes and cathedrals and chalices etc. If you had been an important person for company wouldn’t you clean your house, make a good meal, put out the good dishes for them? Same concept.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: We take Christ’s word literally when He says “This is my body, this is my blood…” That is why the Eucharist is so important to us because it is Jesus Himself that we are receiving.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: i'm back, and really wet...damn showers...stop me if you have heard this one...."Jesus Christ walks into a hotel and hands the innkeeper 3 nails and asks if he could put him up for the night..."
2005-01-25 [Dint]: The Eucharist is the summit of our faith and is the most intimate relationship that we can have with our Lord and Savior.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: you take christ's word's literally, but not the rest of the bible? teri and everyone else said the bible is all figurative, and NOT to be taken literally...ye
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: yes but still Christ did not tell us to go and make huge cathedreals and make everything ornate (by our standards) fellowship is good, but you need time alone as well. It's not possible to truely to believe something if you only talk about it with other people, you need to spend time with God alone as well.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: When you clean your house when someone comes over they may think its aways clean, but God is everywhere all the time, you can't fool him into thinking something is clean. God tells us to be humble before him, not to look our best, he doesn't tell us that the priests should wear a purple robe during this seaon and a red one during this season, the only time he ever gave explict instrustions on how to worship him with such extravogance was BEFORE Christ died, BEFORE that curtian split, before we could go through Jesus to get to him. We don't have to look nice to come before God, Jesus is what we need, because we must be pure to come before a perfect God.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: And human objects wont save us, not gold, not robes, not big fancy buildings, because Christ died all we need now is him.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: *nods*
2005-01-25 [Dint]: Why do you think it is so terrible to worship God the way Catholics do?
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: I think it's wrong that they make it so overly done, and it's not JUST Catholics, I'm not out to get Catholics, geesh your so defensive. It's not right to try to make ourselves impressive, someone said it was to make you feel more 'comfortable' we SHOULDN'T feel comfortable unless we have Christ, because we are dispicable and God really should blow us all the bits, by having all the stuff to make you feel better, more holy, then you're elevating yourself to be good enough to speak to God, maybe even without Christ or not with Christ but with a 'Saint' it should ONLY be through Christ cause only HE makes us feel clean. If you can be absolutely disgusting looking and in the middle of a...
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: ...smelly swamp and you feel uncomfortable speaking with God then you don't have Jesus. It's a fake security blanket that wont save you. And it's not just Catholics, its alot of the Church in general.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: The Canon of Scripture which is the official list of inspired books that make up the Bible was officially determined in the Fourth Century by Catholic councils and Catholic popes. In Martin Luther’s “Commentary” on Saint John, chapter 16, he stated; “We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists (Catholics) that they possess the Word of God which we received from them, otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it.”
2005-01-25 [Dint]: It is because of the Catholic Church that the Protestants have a Bible at all. This formal decision by the Church settled the matter about the inspired books for 1100 years.
2005-01-25 [Dint]: Anyhow...I'm tired, I have to go to bed. We'll talk more about this later. See you guys.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: and what is that supposed to mean? Why give me random facts I KNOW THAT, I know most of all you have told me, don't tell me facts that I KNOW, reply to my posts. And the Catholic Church is not what it was when in started, or at it's 'peak' when it was corrupt beyond belief, it's not what Paul started nor is it what Luther hated. I'm talking about the Catholic church NOW not about why Protestants should be grateful (even though they were prescuted).
2005-01-25 [Dint]: Excuse me, I didn't know that you already knew...and I was answering to [RabidSphinx]. And on that note. I really have to pee and go to bed. Bye guys. Till next time.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: that didnt answer Raine either, she was talking about how you take some of the bible literally but not all, just what defends your churches views, isnt that a coincidence?
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: sounds like one to me...
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: but its also how these ideas came about, but still, I don't taste blood and flesh when I have communion, and it's not getting me into heaven.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: *coughs* OKies, one question at a time. RaineDrop wanted to know why we take John 6 litteraly? Because it is also Apostolic Tradition. The Early Church Fathers and Popes and leaders gave us STRICT instructions to carry it on, and so we have done. And because we have both to defend John 6, is why we do it. And the Priests of NOW are blessed to be able to have the power to change the bread into The Eucharist.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: The Strict instruction also came from Christ)***
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: Tradition? Because a HUMAN told you to? and what do you mean by "early Popes" if you mean middle ages you also mean Popes who owned brothels and about a million other horrible things. Why do you believe something a human told you? You shouldn't believe what a human said and I don't care how long ago it was.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Ahem, yes Tradition. Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2), and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15). He even goes so far as to order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Early Popes meaning, Peter and the next 7 after him. And I don't care that you don't care how long ago it was.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: To make sure that the apostolic tradition would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: The early Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, recognized the necessity of the traditions that had been handed down from the apostles and guarded them scrupulously, as the following quotations show.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: so you are talking a bout the BIBLE's tradition and teachings being passed down...but where did all your CATHOLIC traditions come from? um, men?
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Um yes. That's what Peter was! And you know, the bible had to stop some where. Peter told the persons after HIM to carry on HIS and CHRIST's work.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Catholic?! Christ set DOWN the Catholic Church! "Simon Cephas answered and said, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus answered and said unto him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah: flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee also, that you are Cephas, and on this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it"
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: The first Christians had no doubts about how to determine which was the true Church and which doctrines the true teachings of Christ. The test was simple: Just trace the apostolic succession of the claimants.Apos
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: Christ did not tell you to have idiols, to make certian people 'saints', he didn't tell you to pray through saints, he told you to pray through him.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: We don't have *idols*. We made wonderful persons Saints through MANY YEARS OF RESEARCH. The first step is on miracle tested for about 40 years. Then you become blessed. Then, you have two compleatly NEW miracle to be tested on WITH MODERN Science and MUCH investigation to become a saint. It is no easy job. And Jesus himself has come to many Saints and given them orders. We pray through them for help. Like asking a friend to pray for you when your sick. Same thing.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: Jesus has come to Saints? says them...you can't prove that...they can say *anything*...m
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Oh what ever RaineDrop--thi
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: they weren't saints...you are twisting the bible's words AGAIN teri...god HATES saints....and he hates Idol worship, which is what all that Mary worship is
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: jesus and god do NOT talk to people DIRECTLY! god, even in the bible times, talked through ANGELS! never himself, because he would kill a person if they saw or heard him themselves...a
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: LOL! No!! God hates NO ONE RaineDrop! And I am not twisting God's words. I would never do that. And we do not Worship Mary, we Honor her.
2005-01-25 [Lioness123]: he does in your heart and through other people. God works in mysterious ways
2005-01-25 [Lioness123]: Mary is the mother of God, thats why we pray to her that she'll ask God to help us.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: you worship and pray to her....which you should be doing to god...and no, god says specifically in the bible that he HATES idol worship, and the Saints are blasphemers...
2005-01-25 [Lioness123]: where in the bible does it say that???
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: SHE IS THE MORTAL MOTHER OF JESUS' MORTAL BODY AND NOTHING MORE! she doesn't talk to god, she isn't up on some throne, she is just a faithful servent of god and she would be insulted if she knew people were making her out to be something more than she really was
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: jesus in NOT god...he says that himself COUNTLESS times in the bible
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: and where does he say he hates idol worship? i can't remember the spacific verses, but when he commanded that all idols in the conquered lands to be smashed...
2005-01-25 [Lioness123]: praying to someone is NOT the same thing as worshiping them. We don't have masses to Mary or to anyone else.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Yes RaineDrop, she is mortal but with out sin! We honor her for being the Mother of Our Lord! She is some one to very much look up to as a role model!
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: she sinned...what are you talking about? she sinned because she was an imperfect human born to imperfect parents in an imperfect earth...jshe was just faithful to god, so he chose her to bare him his only SON
2005-01-25 [Lioness123]: Mary's physical body rose to heaven...hold on, i can find the verse where it talks about it...
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: hahah...really
2005-01-25 [Lioness123]: I'll find it.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Mary could not be imperfect. Mary could not sin because God is perfect. She had to be a pure vessal...
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: i won't be here to read it...night
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: MAry was a born sinner like EVERYONE esle...only JEsus was born without sin...she was full of sin, but a pure virgin who had strong faith in god...she was the best human vessil he could find on earth...she WAS imperfect, only jesus was perfect, and to say otherwise is blasphemy
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: God preserved her from sin. God chose her even before she was born Jesus could not have been born from a sinner of any kind, wouldn't you say?? because Jesus is perfect, his mother had to be too.
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: Mary was a human and was born into sin like everyone else, she wasn't perfect, and she was only mother to Christ's human form nothing more, Christ will not be born from someone in his second comming for he will come in glory. Saints are anyone who believe, not people who perfom 'miracles' and you should NOT pray to them the only person you should pray to is Jesus/God pray TO God THROUGH Jesus, because only Jesus can purify us with his blood so we may be clean before God, no "saint" can do that.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: and if you say Mary could be "kept from sin" so jesus could be born of her, what makes you think god couldn't just keep JESUS from sin...? Mary was a human, a moral sinner...but jesus, being god's sun, born to a uman, was sinless...\
2005-01-25 [Lioness123]: I'm perfectly happy for you guys to be here and ask us questions, but please remember that this is a Roman Catholics United page, arguing about who's right isn't goign to fly here.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: To only Christ's human form? What do you mean? Christ was Fully Human and Fully Divine.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Jesus IS free from sin!
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: Mary was ONLY the mother of Christ's human form...her cells and womb built and cared for jesus's body and he was born from her...Jesus's "soul" his "being" was created by god, up in heavan, before anything else....they togeather created the heavens and earth...Mary is nothing but a woman god loved...and i never said jesus wasn'tr free from sin teri! i was saying he is the ONLY ONE that is free from sin...mary was a sinner!
2005-01-25 [Lioness123]: Mary was born without ORIGINAL SIN. There is a huge difference.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: she WAS born with original sin, which is adams sin, which is why she grew old and DIED!....every human, minus jesus, is born with sin brought about BECAUSE of the original sin
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: YES! But Jesus had a soul from the moment The Holy Spirit came apon Mary! So, thus, she gave birth to God and Man. AND she did NOT DIE she was assumed into heaven.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: The doctrine of the Assumption says that at the end of her life on earth Mary was assumed, body and soul, into heaven, just as Enoch, Elijah, and perhaps others had been before her. It’s also necessary to keep in mind what the Assumption is not. Some people think Catholics believe Mary "ascended" into heaven. That’s not correct. Christ, by his own power, ascended into heaven. Mary was assumed or taken up into heaven by God. She didn’t do it under her own power.
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: she DID die, and she din't NOT give birth to god but JESUS, there is a differance...a
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Nope. I must say--I dissagree. Why can't we agree to dissagree RaineDrop? (as said by a great friend of mine)
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: Enoch and Elijah were sinners as well, and the Doctrine of the Assumption is not accepted by many people and a poor thing to argue with.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: Yes she did give birth to Jesus, who was fully Divine and fully Human from the moment the Holy Spirit came apon Mary! We call it the Incarnation!=D
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: i'm just going to bed...Cat and i are too tired to disscuss anymore of this tonight...than
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: You too argue with poor things. You come into the wiki to start fights. I hardly think you are to here to help or as questions.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: WE DO KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RAINEDROP! I am sorry to fly off the handle but you show great disrespect in some one elses wiki!
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: you don't *know* anything...jus
2005-01-25 [Bad Stone]: I didn't come here to start a fight, and I was asking questions, and if you can't take people pointing out holes in your religion DON'T LISTEN. I argue with perfectly fine things, its called common sense, a brain and the bible.
2005-01-25 [Lioness123]: don't insult us, Rainedrop.
2005-01-25 [Tesa]: I agree....
2005-01-25 [RabidSphinx]: YOU are the ones taking it all as insults...
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